Wed 10 Oct 2007
Stephen Walt and Me On the Radio
Posted by Mitchell Plitnick under Israel , Palestine , US-Israel Lobby , Academics , Free speechFor those interested, I appeared on a radio show today for one hour with Steven Walt, one of the authors of “The Israel Lobby.” You can listen to the show online by clicking here. If you have a problem with that direct connection, you can go to the page for the show by clicking here
11 Responses to “Stephen Walt and Me On the Radio”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Israel’s interest being against America’s best interest ???
There are literally hundreds of lobbies in the USA who coerce US politicians to legislate in their respective favors.
Iowa Beef Packers (free grazing and discount water + heart disease and possibly cancer).
Monsanto (improper approval of their chemicals and genetic engineering products).
Bank of America (Reformed Bankruptcy laws, credit card interest at 30% on the economically weakest population segment, improper control of the Courts through retaining massive amounts of law firms and even an exemption for Anti trust in the form of shared, common credit information).
Defense Contractors
and on and on and on . . .
Israel get the heat and light and blame and resentment over $3-billion/year when the above mentioned lobbying efforts probably cost the USA into the hundreds of billions annually.
Just as Mr. Jesus gets credit for everything that goes right, Mr. Israel gets the credit for everything that goes wrong. This is a constant because Jews are typically high-functioning and high achieving and the only way to keep them from being vastly and enviously financially and socially over-successful (and wooing the best gentile women to boot) is to keep them vilified. This to me is “101”. It is not rocket-science. People who have read their history and have a few functional brain-cells and don’t see this, are boneheads.
“Israel denies the Palestinians a state of their own” Lies. Israel has tried to encourage this but just as the UNHCR has been blocked from resettling so called Palestinian “refugees” Israel has been given ultimatum after ultimatum by the Arabs, in an effort to actually block any real establishment of a functional state, because that would tend to end the conflict, something the Arab war-lords have no mind to do.
Substantially fostering “terrorism” in the USA?? Perhaps the biggest single slander rendered by Walt. He thinks that if Israel would simply be more reasonable and more compliant to the needs of the rest of the world that Terror would somehow universally subside. The answer to this question can literally be found in the statements of tens of thousands of former Muslims. In no other religion in the world (except certain very small cults) do the people who convert away from a given religion have such fear and loathing for their former deity. Walt may not have an understanding for what is fueling international terrorism but these (ex-pat) people almost universally do. I do not say that Islam is bad or that Muslims are bad. I do say that their religion has been infiltrated by significant numbers of politically (not religiously) motivated people, who are using it to (themselves) rise to power. Therefore, they do not worship Allah, they worship themselves and divert attention by praising Allah in the process. If anything, Israel has tended to keep this in check because the Hebrews are emotionally close enough to the Arabs to function on a similar wavelength and so (at least) nobody is fooling anyone. There is nothing Israel could do to stop this except to stop it. The most productive thing the Arabs could do to benefit themselves is to open their arms to the Israelis and allow the Jews to set them strait on a number of fronts, from education to how to run a thriving government and economy. Otherwise, the Jews serve the (probably temporal) role of merely keeping the Arabs off each other’s throats. Walt is a simpleton who’s education vastly exceeds his intellect and cognitive skills. Let him live my life for one week and them let him say that this is not a war against Jewish prosperity and success.
Trollstein to Walt: kiss my ass.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:14 am
PS} To the above:
Both the Quran and Gospels have some awful things to say about Jews and if one counts the “Pharisees” as being a generic/genetic form of Rabbinical Jew, as was discussed earlier, it gets far worse, (theological explanations of “inter-family” bickering aside — because most Christians {even some clergy} don’t have sufficient theological/historical understanding of proto-Christianity to make any distinction.)
Between these two religions, amounts to over 50% of the world’s population and nearly 100% of the “West” and “Middle East” which is coincidently where 99% Jews are living (not in Bangkok or North Korea).
So, its bad enough that Jews manage to triumph and more so over the adversity they/we face but — by throwing in a dose of collective guilt over the “Palestine” question, enough adverse chemistry is conjured to keep us Hebrews on the walls of the Biblical post office.
This is why the blame HAS to go out to some giant and all pervasive “Israel Lobby” and not to a few decision-makers in Israel itself. Because this evil lobby embodies all the most objectionable characteristics of a secret society, like a Jewish “Klu-Klux-Klan”. The Members and supporters have faces (identities) cloaked and so all must be suspected of participation, just as for many years the perception among city-dwellers from Boston (for example) was that all white male adults in Alabama were KKK members.
In the end, the “Palestine” problem arises because to the typical mind, those who are vilified in their scriptures should not be enjoying a more successful and/or prosperous life them themselves. The only explanation must therefore be: they either deal with the Devil or are the devil.
Shame on Walt and shame on those who rationalize his intellectual bigotry, which may be the worst kind.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
“Both the Quran and Gospels have some awful things to say about Jews”
I disagree. We have been over the Quran a number of times. As for the NT, it is seen more and more today as basically a Jewish book. It was written by Jews about Jews and in the first instance for a Jewish audience. Jesus was a Jew, the twelve disciples were Jews, and Paul was a Jew.
As a non-Christian, there are some things about this that you do not understand. Historically, certain Jewish leaders (Saducees most likely; not Pharisees) collaborated with the Romans to bring Jesus up on charges. He was executed by the Romans using a typical Roman means of capital punishment. If the Jewish authorities had killed him, he would have been stoned to death. These are details of interest only to scholars really.
Theologically, most Christians believe that all of humanity were “Christ killers.” That is to say that we believe the forgiveness of sins manifested in and through his Passion and Resurrection is extended to us all because we all - as human beings - participated in his death, whether present or not. (”Were you there when they crucified my Lord?” as the Negro spiritual says it) There is no aspect of any of the people involved in Jesus’ death not shared by the rest of us. His blood is on us, but he is our Passover, and so his blood is also our salvation we believe. Therefore, it would be meaningless to assign blame to the Jews or to the Saducees or to the Pharisees or to the Zealots for his death. Judas Iscariot, for example, is not considered more blameworthy than the rest of us. Christians identify with him in fact. We each do what Judas did many times each day. We believe that the Messiah came and that we humans killed him, that as the Messiah he knew this in advance and forgave us, and that God raised him from the dead and all of us along with him. The exact details of who was directly involved in Jesus’ death are really trivia. Existentially, they are not very important to most Christians, because we understand ourselves to be Christ-killers. That ironically is the basis of our faith.
I apologize for the “sermon” but I am speaking from a perspective I think you are not fully aware of.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:23 am
You do not have to appoligize for sermoning.
I rather enjoy it.
However, the fact you you may be a Christian or that I may not be should not (and I submit does not) diminish my capacity to understand the religion. Most Christians are not as well read as yourself and I also submit that you are prone to creative interpretation anyway.
To most (about 90+%) of all the Christians in the world merely believe whatever is highlighted by their congregations and sound-bited by their preachers. As a package, some not nice things are said and referred to as far as Jews in both the N.T. and N.N.T. (Quran). In fairness, we can not know what the Jews might have had to say (about Christians and Muslims) in the O.T. scriptures had the Jewish religion come after the others. Do you really want to get me started with quotations?
Quotations aside, it is commonly held and freely repeated by Christians that Jews do not qualify for life-everlasting. What worse of an insult could there be then that?
I for one would rather be known as a: hook-nosed, pushy, money-grubbing, cheating, lying, hypocritical “Christ-Killer”, so long as I am not rejected (by man) into God’s kingdom, (once I am done bilking widows and orphans out of their life’s savings here on earth).
October 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
What worse of an insult could there be then that?
Indeed! I agree completely, Isidor. And anyone who says such a thing has automatically disqualified himself from speaking because he obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He has the shoe on the wrong foot. “No man cometh to the Father except by me”? My understanding is that was addressed to non-Jews! How else are Gentiles to qualify for life-everlasting but through the new covenant which would include them in the family? It is assumed that Jews who observe the Torah will enjoy the fruits of the Kingdom. The question which the Gospel addresses is “What is to become of the Gentiles?”
October 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
so long as I am not rejected (by man) into God’s kingdom
I’m not sure I really want to go to the same place these self-righteous types claim to be headed. I recommend the stance taken by Huckleberry Finn. When Miss Watson tried to reform him from smoking and bad language by telling him about “the bad place” he decided that’s where he wanted to go. She said she was definitely going to heaven, and so he decided he didn’t want to try for it, particularly since she also said Tom Sawyer definitely would not be going there and he wanted to be with Tom.
October 14th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
““No man cometh to the Father except by me”? My understanding is that was addressed to non-Jews! How else are Gentiles to qualify for life-everlasting but through the new covenant which would include them in the family?”
Interesting.
I was just reading part of the section re: angels in that book of Jewish apocalyptic scriptures (earlier referenced) and I recall some mention of Jews being ministered to directly by God while the other tribes of the world were contacted through angels. (???)
I don’t believe in this mind you but it might help affirm your concept that such a meaning may have been part of traditions, especially within the Essene sect.
The Essene sect claimed to have possession of original scriptures, dating and owing directly from Moses, that contradicted certain teachings of the more modern Judean denominations. This would also help explain why the Jesus followers resented the scribes, as they were being held liable for the scriptural ‘perversions’ in question.
Yet, other complexities exist.
For example, the commonly-held story of Moses was replete with violence, while the Essenes were pacifists and were likely also vegetarians for purely ethical (religious) reasons.
Here is my personal belief:
The Essenes were indeed pacifists and vegetarians but Jesus was to the Essenes what Dennis Kucinich is to the Democrats. Basically a zealot with his own agenda.
I believe that Jesus advocated keeping kosher, except for when the preacher was in a strange place where their only way to be fed is at the table of others (non-Jews) {See Gnostic Gospel of Thomas}. I don’t think he mandated an animal free diet. In later translations, this became jumbled up so that modern Christians believe that Jesus sanctified all types of foods, kosher and non-kosher. However, I believe that John the Baptist actually came from the Essene priesthood and he was a strict and zealot pacifist and vegetarian. He was originally intended to be the high-preacher to Jesus being the anointed King but when John was beheaded, Jesus was faced with a dilemma. How to carry-on without his head clergyman. So, like a father who’s wife died, he tried to be both father and mother to the children. In so doing, the rules changed. For another thing, the Essenes were not big on interaction, let alone conversion of outsiders, let alone Gentiles. To join the Essene sect, one was required to meet strict criteria and be extremely disciplined.
Jesus (in my personal understanding) gave up on the idea of ministering only to Jews and wanted nothing less then to convert all people, (which went a long way toward happening), albeit after (and perhaps through) his reported death.
Anyway, back to the core issue:
I do not agree that the verse you quote (”No man cometh to the Father except by me”) was made with exceptions for Jews. Its possible but all the other evidence points to Jesus wanting to be King of the Jews and expand that kingdom, to become king of everyone else. His reasoning and motivation was based in his religious beliefs, whereas he saw this as being beneficial to his “flocks”, as they also needed his as their leader, to return righteousness to the entire Earth.
But as much as Mr. Jesus took issues with the leaders of the other Jewish sects, I can’t agree that his various religious edicts were assumed to exclude those Jewish sects.
I think when John was murdered by Herod, Mr. Jesus may have taken that event as a Divine proclamation, that he alone was intended to speak for God.
BTW, Muslim scripture states that Jesus was a prophet (not God) and that the Jews tried (unsuccessfully) to kill him but that they were far too feeble to possibly be successful at murdering a messenger of Allah.
October 14th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Interesting, indeed. Enough there to ponder for years, as I suspect you have already.
October 14th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Here’s another few months worth:
While nearing death, Jesus was reported to have said:
“Why have Thou forsaken me Lord?”
I think most Christians find this statement at least curious and no explanation I have heard seems to satisfy them. If my earlier supposition re: John’s murder is near to correct, then, this would tend to assign a plausible translation to the quote.
Namely, ‘'’How can I go down like John?”’
(Here he was thinking that God allowed his twin pillar to be murdered — to clear a path for his ministry and now, why is he seeing a similar fate?)
October 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I have always taken it simply to be a quote of the beginning of Psalm 22, a psalm appropriate to the hour of one’s extremity.
October 15th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
uh huh, and where was a voice from the other side? seems like JVP doesn’t mind muzzling sometimes, as long as they get to speak.
pathetic, really. what kind of debate or discussion is that? why is JVP not whining about muzzling here?
lol.